sara's bloodtablets

First topic message reminder :

someone pointed out to me that the shape of the bloodtablets seems to have changed in this chapter, from round to an oval shape. it seems to me sara has altered them probably not just their shape but their formulae too.

personally i think they are going to bring out the vampire nature more, and make vampires thirst more for real blood. sara was thinking about the tablets in her room with her little sara squad in the new chapter. she seemed to be giving the new tablets to them. maybe trying them out?

what are everyone else's opinions on the tablets? and what might it lead too?

Vanille-chan wrote:

Also IF Yuuki's thirst is originated from spoiled tablets, thus the bite to Zero ... doesn't necessarily resolve anything ...

This solves, Big sis:


"She wanted to drink because she was induced to do, ´coz Sara´s tablets increased her thirst.." End of game.

It brings us back to the same point before the bite … if Hino wants to maintain the ambiguity she still can … not that I like it but ... she can.

nina wrote:
The problem here is not the satisfaction but the “tameness” … true there are many factors that have increased Yuuki’s thirst (I have mentioned them many times and I’m not dismissing them). But the problem here is that Yuuki’s thirst isn’t tamed neither just a little bit, on the contrary seems like increasing. The example you brought about Kaname also giving us the info that the tabs have a certain result … he took the tabs in order not to harm the “offer”. Again … if the tablets haven’t any affect over the blood-lust then how and why the NC or Zero using them? It doesn’t make any sense not to work only to Yuuki’s case … the “spoiled part” goes to the satisfaction, not to tameness.

The recent lack of tameness is incomparable to the fits we've already seen Yuuki capable of when she's excessively hungry. Its not like this:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-21/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html

Physically, all she's done is grab her neck a few times and mutter about good smells. Her lack of control currently is her emotional tension and inability to think clearly and how she is easily distracted (course she's always been easily distracted, it just matters more now).

And blood tablets not making much difference is not new, at least to Zero
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-20/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html
Swallowing numerous pills and minutes later at the mention of Kaname's name:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-24/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html
Zero falters heavily. As a level D, Zero isn't the best example, but the idea of the ineffectiveness of blood tablets isn't new and Yuuki has had as bad fits even as a pureblood.

The night before, Yuuki has a bit of a hunger pang and pops a tablet, then two more.

The defuser in the scene where Yuki "jumps" Yori, was not the blood tablet, but Yori laughing at her, Yuki makes a face (she was mostly making a point) and pops a tablet and then all is good for a while. It seems to me that Yuuki was making a poor emulation of Zero:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2064-21/vampire-knight/chapter-4.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2064-22/vampire-knight/chapter-4.html

When things are calm and normal, they pop a tablets into water and drink and thats fine. Maybe as someone else pointed out, Yuuki just isn't popping enough because of her stress. Kaname under stress, has a whole handful, yes, he's not accepting the human offering, but he still requires that much to sate his thirst.
http://www.sagakure.net/IMG/2009/scans/vk48/13.jpg
Just another factor to consider.
- Emotional stress and conflicts (multiple)
- Inexperience with tablets (not used to their lack)
- Not enough tablets
- Only had pure blood previously*

So if satisfaction is different from sating the hunger, exactly how is it different because vampires still hunger after being satisfied (or have we never actually seen a satisfied vampire?)...but they also hunger after they have been sated. You always get hungry again...

I highly doubt yuki is useing tainted blood tablets. First off ether yuki takuma or zero have been around sara since she left the ha, so she would not have had the chance to switch yuki's tablets.
I belive the terrable thing that sara was doing with the tablets is useing kids blood to create them as well as maybe mixing in some of her own.

@knightmare

As it seems we differ, on the “abnormality” of Yuuki’s thirst.

The recent lack of tameness is incomparable to the fits we've already seen Yuuki capable of when she's excessively hungry. Its not like this:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-21/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html

Physically, all she's done is grab her neck a few times and mutter about good smells. Her lack of control currently is her emotional tension and inability to think clearly and how she is easily distracted (course she's always been easily distracted, it just matters more now).

The scan that you are providing IMO reinforces my stance that her jump on Zero’s neck isn’t justified by her hunger, due to emotional tension alone, cuz even when she had these terrible fits, which almost drove her to “madness” she still refused to use her fangs and quench her thirst. As you said those fits are incomparable (or should be) with her current situation. She was like a wild animal, hence and her basic instinct should drive her to the first available neck … but no. However now she isn’t satisfied with the blood from Zero’s wrist but she jumps on his throat like a”rabid cat” lol.

Also when she was unconscious and wounded she managed to resist.

Now even if Zero was the love of her life, and nothing holding her back, still under the conditions their relationship had been for the last year, plus her character, should be enough to restrain her from jumping to his throat. For me Yuuki is OOC there.

And blood tablets not making much difference is not new, at least to Zero
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-20/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html
Swallowing numerous pills and minutes later at the mention of Kaname's name:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-24/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html
Zero falters heavily. As a level D, Zero isn't the best example, but the idea of the ineffectiveness of blood tablets isn't new and Yuuki has had as bad fits even as a pureblood.

As you already said Zero isn’t the befitting example … but still he managed to hold himself using tabs for a year. Yuuki has only a few days (a month?) that she had fed with the best fresh blood and in large quantity haha.
Also notice this … she started to have fits a few days ago but she was very composed. Her emotional tension more or less was the same … I mean her situation didn’t worsen so drastically to justify a drastically change to her thirst degree. My interpretation is that her thirst fits in frequency and in intensity terms, has increased after she took the tabs.

The night before, Yuuki has a bit of a hunger pang and pops a tablet, then two more.

The defuser in the scene where Yuki "jumps" Yori, was not the blood tablet, but Yori laughing at her, Yuki makes a face (she was mostly making a point) and pops a tablet and then all is good for a while. It seems to me that Yuuki was making a poor emulation of Zero:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2064-21/vampire-knight/chapter-4.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2064-22/vampire-knight/chapter-4.html

I’m not saying that she was serious when she jumped to Yori … of course it was a joke (well I hope it was … you never know hahaha). However the meaning behind that scene is that she was agitated/lured from Yori’s delicious blood! To the extent that she had freaked out with her own self … There is the emphatic point … she was so hungry that she shocked from her own thoughts! And she had taken 3-4 tabs just hours before.

When things are calm and normal, they pop a tablets into water and drink and thats fine. Maybe as someone else pointed out, Yuuki just isn't popping enough because of her stress. Kaname under stress, has a whole handful, yes, he's not accepting the human offering, but he still requires that much to sate his thirst.
http://www.sagakure.net/IMG/2009/scans/vk48/13.jpg

Just another factor to consider.
- Emotional stress and conflicts (multiple)
- Inexperience with tablets (not used to their lack)
- Not enough tablets
- Only had pure blood previously*

So if satisfaction is different from sating the hunger, exactly how is it different because vampires still hunger after being satisfied (or have we never actually seen a satisfied vampire?)...but they also hunger after they have been sated. You always get hungry again...

I will add another reason … Zero’s blood is obviously wanted … despite the nature of her feelings the fact is that she loves him … and as Yori’s example reminds us, the blood of a beloved one is more appealing. So after she smelt his blood I would find it more logical or possible not to handle to resist and drink from his wrist … as I said above the OOC is the sudden jump.
Also … why is Zero offering his blood in a very intensive way? From what he says, probably he also found Yuuki’s state out of control … remember when she was wounded he suggested to take tabs … now why he isn’t suggesting her the same or if you like advise her to increase her dose????

Again … even if Yuuki didn’t take the right dose shouldn’t be just a little bit less hungry?
All the factors that you’re pointing out are true and especially the emotional stress I also had pointed out as a source for her thirst … but still for me are enough to justify her hunger not the jump … and here after a circle we reach to the same point … we differ on the “abnormal” intensity of her thirst, which led her to jump.

The satisfaction and the satiety are two different things … the lack of satisfaction doesn’t drive a vampire to jump on the first available neck obviously … if so as I said the NC wouldn’t have managed to restrain themselves from attacking to the DC for example, cuz as it stated the tablets didn’t satisfy them. However when they smelt fresh blood were getting agitate, but still they managed to hold on.
Contrarily if a vampire is not sated meaning its hungry, eventually will not restrain from a prey. The tablets aren’t providing satisfaction but the essential nutriment hence and tame their hunger.
From what I understand … a vampire under the tabs is like a human on diet haha … the dietary-food it’s not satisfactory but inhibits the starvation.

nina wrote:cuz immediately would spot the difference in taste and further more
could realize that something is wrong with these tablets. But Yuuki
since she never took tablets before she can’t tell the difference,

you may be onto something there... ofc she couldn't tell what they tasted before, or whats its original taste because she doesn't know , there are many types of BT that can be different in tastes. i dont think yuki could've known.

which leads me to Aido. Where in the world is he? he should be there to teach her about this,

knightmare wrote:
...but they also hunger after they have been sated. You always get hungry again...

this reminds me, Yuki's hunger attacks are actually sudden
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-19/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-20/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/23

or repressed
like
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/13

i think if she cant control herself
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-25/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html
she has to bite onto something/someone

yuki just has very short self control yes i think the drip feed way Kaname was doing was actually a way of disciplining her, and now she's a spoiled brat who must have blood everytime she wants it

I'm generally having a hard time working out Sara's motivations here for giving Yuuki these pills. If they are for controlling her then I can understand it a bit. If it is for making her hungry I don't really see the purpose. Sure, she might cause problems but how can she know Yuuki won't just bite one of the nobles like Aidou? Also if it did this it wouldn't be a very useful tool for her in the future. Maybe she's just a Zeki and doing it for the Lawls? I don't know. And why only Yuuki? Zero seems the most vulnerable here. He also the one she seems more interested in. With him being close to becoming a Level E he'd certainly be the most at risk for her to persuade, at least in her mind.

This is not to say I believe any of these theories beyond this as they seem complete contrivances. They are based completely on conjecture. We have no evidence to support them other than that. You'd think it would be hinted at in some substantive way that she switched the tablets but it hasn't. I'm not saying its impossible, very very few things are, but I think the much more logical one is she was craving Zero blood since he was there. We know she was having craving for his blood when she was with Kaname. Aidou wondered why she was hungry even when having Kaname's blood and she admitted as much later to Kaname about her still be connected to him. Now that she's once again around him and other people she loves, like Yori, her blood craving is certain to pick up. Whether you believe this love to be platonic or not, I won't argue this as it's just gets pointless people will believe what they want here, but it still seems much more likely without the need for random conjecture. I find this entire theory a bit... sad?

nina wrote:@knightmare

As it seems we differ, on the “abnormality” of Yuuki’s thirst.

Perhaps I'm not sure what you're saying is abnormal about her thirst, her level of hunger or that she's not in control of it or that she so easily gives into her hunger?

I think I don't agree with her lack of control and where you're seeing it specifically. Yuuki chose to acquiesce to Zero's pressure and take the blood that she desired. She gives in relatively easily, which reflects a lack of self control which is very conscious, swayed by desire.

Now even if Zero was the love of her life, and nothing holding her back, still under the conditions their relationship had been for the last year, plus her character, should be enough to restrain her from jumping to his throat. For me Yuuki is OOC there.

All I know about this, is that Yuuki says that she has to take what she wants with her own fangs and that in those last moments at the thought of drinking from his wrist, she makes a conscious decision to take from Zero's neck instead.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3PGgqA0TSAk8Ar5EuzET7RrXsLjg8JN1vPSDj8NkBZA?feat=directlink
That she doesn't ask is rude and uncharacteristic, but she's still controlling what she's doing and she's choosing not fighting her desire for blood after she makes the conscious decision to accept Zero's blood. There is no need for restraint here. So I'm not sure what is abnormal in her this act, that she accepts Zero's blood or that she is rude about it?

S_R wrote:I'm generally having a hard time working out Sara's motivations here for giving Yuuki these pills. If they are for controlling her then I can understand it a bit. If it is for making her hungry I don't really see the purpose. Sure, she might cause problems but how can she know Yuuki won't just bite one of the nobles like Aidou?

the well loved phrase
Vampires can only be satisfied by their loved ones
can work here

Since Yuki misses Yori and Zero the most from her human life, she would be more inclined to bite them to be satisfied. That means Aido, Takuma, or any vampire can't be bitten. This is supported when Yuki loved the smell of Yori's blood, that shows obviously that she's hungry otherwise she won't notice it, and she especially was attracted to her blood when earlier she did not towards Takuma.

This is what is assumed. I only know for certain Sara is scheming something. Because:
-A villain like her, you think she went to the academy to have fun while she does her tablets project? Her main target is obviously Kurans
-Yuki is the most convenient, vulnerable target as Kuran. If Sara's aim is power, Yuki is a newborn pureblood and she is at her most vulnerable now
-Sara knows Kaname is not around to give Yuki his blood. She would be stupid not to take advantage of this opportunity.
-Her main weapon as seen here looks like it involves spiders and tablets. here she suddenly altered the taste of the tablets (when prior to that yuki was tasting bad ones..coincidence?) and forbid Takuma to say anything about it. Obviously she plans something and it involved/involves Yuki.

The question is how.

Also if it did this it wouldn't be a very useful tool for her in the future. Maybe she's just a Zeki and doing it for the Lawls? I don't know. And why only Yuuki? Zero seems the most vulnerable here. He also the one she seems more interested in. With him being close to becoming a Level E he'd certainly be the most at risk for her to persuade, at least in her mind.

I think Sara was indeed aiming for Zero, if you noticed, and since she failed there in this chapter when Maria interrupted her, I think she has a back up plan.

This is not to say I believe any of these theories beyond this as they seem complete contrivances. They are based completely on conjecture. We have no evidence to support them other than that. You'd think it would be hinted at in some substantive way that she switched the tablets but it hasn't. I'm not saying its impossible, very very few things are,

well no one's forcing you. you can try thinking to figure out if its contrivances or not

but I think the much more logical one is she was craving Zero blood since he was there. We know she was having craving for his blood when she was with Kaname. Aidou wondered why she was hungry even when having Kaname's blood and she admitted as much later to Kaname about her still be connected to him. Now that she's once again around him and other people she loves, like Yori, her blood craving is certain to pick up. Whether you believe this love to be platonic or not, I won't argue this as it's just gets pointless people will believe what they want here, but it still seems much more likely without the need for random conjecture. I find this entire theory a bit... sad?

Didn't you find Yuki strange? at all? she is even acting OOC here. I was expecting a little bit of thinking done here despite the "awe-someness" of this chapter. And this is pretty disappointing. well not that i expected much..

Knightmare wrote:

Now even if Zero
was the love of her life, and nothing holding her back, still under the
conditions their relationship had been for the last year, plus her
character, should be enough to restrain her from jumping to his throat.
For me Yuuki is OOC there.

All I know about this, is
that Yuuki says that she has to take what she wants with her own fangs
and that in those last moments at the thought of drinking from his
wrist, she makes a conscious decision to take from Zero's neck instead.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3PGgqA0TSAk8Ar5EuzET7RrXsLjg8JN1vPSDj8NkBZA?feat=directlink
That
she doesn't ask is rude and uncharacteristic, but she's still
controlling what she's doing and she's choosing not fighting her desire
for blood after she makes the conscious decision to accept Zero's blood.
There is no need for restraint here. So I'm not sure what is abnormal
in her this act, that she accepts Zero's blood or that she is rude about
it?

I think chapter 60 can null this conscious desire. Chapter 60 she was even wounded but she stopped herself before biting him. And now it makes sense for her to pounce on his neck? O.o
Yuki is obviously hungry. Desiring Zero's blood is only one way to look at it, prior to that Yuki came across Yori and she also desired her blood.

sweetsolace wrote:the well loved phrase
Vampires can only be satisfied by their loved ones
can work here

Since Yuki misses Yori and Zero the most from her human life, she would be more inclined to bite them to be satisfied. That means Aido, Takuma, or any vampire can't be bitten. This is supported when Yuki loved the smell of Yori's blood, that shows obviously that she's hungry otherwise she won't notice it, and she especially was attracted to her blood when earlier she did not towards Takuma.

This is what is assumed. I only know for certain Sara is scheming something. Because:
-A villain like her, you think she went to the academy to have fun while she does her tablets project? Her main target is obviously Kurans
-Yuki is the most convenient, vulnerable target as Kuran. If Sara's aim is power, Yuki is a newborn pureblood and she is at her most vulnerable now
-Sara knows Kaname is not around to give Yuki his blood. She would be stupid not to take advantage of this opportunity.
-Her main weapon as seen here looks like it involves spiders and tablets. here she suddenly altered the taste of the tablets (when prior to that yuki was tasting bad ones..coincidence?) and forbid Takuma to say anything about it. Obviously she plans something and it involved/involves Yuki.

The question is how.

Yea, but Yuuki is still tasting bad ones so how does that suggest she'd switched them? If anything that evidence that it wasn't switched. Yes, its possible she just concocted a special blood tablet just for Yuuki but that's another stretch of reasoning to fit your argument. Not evidence. While you can't be "completely" satisfied drinking blood just like eating blood tablets does ward off blood lust. I don't really see how such a plan could affect Yuuki to the extent that going through the extra trouble would be worth it.

well no one's forcing you. you can try thinking to figure out if its contrivances or not

Yea, basically I tried to imply that I did feel it was contrivances. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I don't think they are true. They are made up. Fake. Phony. Unreal. Artificial.

Didn't you find Yuki strange? at all? she is even acting OOC here. I was expecting a little bit of thinking done here despite the "awe-someness" of this chapter. And this is pretty disappointing. well not that i expected much..

Yes, but like Zero I believed in the most logical answer. That she was craving blood and that was causing her OOC actions which are consistent with the past chapters. We see Yuuki craving blood and reaching for the pills in 71 before Sara came and did her amazing trick of hand, off screen of course, for the lawls. I don't see the need to construct elaborate ploys to justify her reasoning in this situation. I'm sorry I disappoint you I don't generally write fanfics so my talent for coming up with such "reasoning" is lacking.

S_R wrote:
Yea, but Yuuki is still tasting bad ones so how does that suggest she'd switched them? If anything that evidence that it wasn't switched. Yes, its possible she just concocted a special blood tablet just for Yuuki but that's another stretch of reasoning to fit your argument. Not evidence. While you can't be "completely" satisfied drinking blood just like eating blood tablets does ward off blood lust. I don't really see how such a plan could affect Yuuki to the extent that going through the extra trouble would be worth it.

No one's saying its "evidence". That's why its called theory. some of the points you're raising were already answered or discussed prior to this, so just read them if that's not too much for you.

Yea, basically I tried to imply that I did feel it was contrivances. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I don't think they are true. They are made up. Fake. Phony. Unreal. Artificial.

if you think they're all just that, why don't you prove it using the evidences you're pushing us to make? you make big words but I don't see how your viewpoint is logical either considering its also made of contrivances as well. And its not backed by "evidences"

Yes, but like Zero I believed in the most logical answer. That she was craving blood and that was causing her OOC actions which are consistent with the past chapters. We see Yuuki craving blood and reaching for the pills in 71 before Sara came and did her amazing trick of hand, off screen of course, for the lawls. I don't see the need to construct elaborate ploys to justify her reasoning in this situation. I'm sorry I disappoint you I don't generally write fanfics so my talent for coming up with such "reasoning" is lacking.

Ok. I see now. I'm not surprised if you were not reading the first few pages of this thread. No you didn't disappoint me because you've presented nothing of interest.

S_R wrote:Yea, but Yuuki is still tasting bad ones so how does that suggest she'd switched them? If anything that evidence that it wasn't switched. Yes, its possible she just concocted a special blood tablet just for Yuuki but that's another stretch of reasoning to fit your argument. Not evidence. While you can't be "completely" satisfied drinking blood just like eating blood tablets does ward off blood lust. I don't really see how such a plan could affect Yuuki to the extent that going through the extra trouble would be worth it.

Well in the first arc the tablets were said to be ‘tasteless’ and now they are described as tasting ‘horrible’, why did hino emphasis this if it wasn’t important to the plot or story? Makes me wonder about these tablets. And we have sara in this chapter changing the taste to make it more appealing. Why all this fuss on the taste unless it’s important? I’m not saying that the tablets are the reason why Yuuki went for Zero’s throat, as to me her thirst and her craving for his blood played a big part, I just don’t think we should ignore the possibility that the tablets, no matter how little, may have had an effect on Yuuki and her thirst. Sara has had plenty of time to already change them i think she's just perfecting her new tablets by making them more appealing to vampires, ie. making them taste better.

And why would sara try and put yuuki at a disadvantage? several reasons really.
1) Yuuki is kaname's weakness, if something is terribly wrong with her, he'd come running. Brings him out in the open and possibly vaulnerable to attack.
2) Yuuki is trying to be the leader in kaname's place at the moment if her position is jepordised then that leaves it vacant for someone else to take the seat of power, basically sara (she does want to be queen)
3) we have a blood thirsty pureblood vampire on the lose. dont think this would be good with humans so close by!

Maybe the comments on the bad taste were ment to further accent sara talking about the yummi tasteing tablets?
Also what type of taste is being refered to here? Taste as in flavor or taste as in the impact of the event.
Yuki "feeling countless breaths of people you never meet before in a blink of an eye"
Then she talks about the taste, in this case I don't belive she is actualy talking about flavor, but the impact of it.
This also might confirm sara is the one behind the abducted kids, being kids they have much fewer and more pleasent breaths for the vampires to be subjected to when feeding.

sweetsolace wrote:No one's saying its "evidence". That's why its called theory. some of the points you're raising were already answered or discussed prior to this, so just read them if that's not too much for you.

Theories are built on evidence. Your theory is that Sara is using the blood tablets to cause Yuuki cravings to increase. All I'm trying to show is that this theory is built on other theories which are only built on superstitions and conjecture. All I'm trying to show is the unsoundness of the theory. Whether you continue to believe it or not is irrelevant to me.

if you think they're all just that, why don't you prove it using the evidences you're pushing us to make? you make big words but I don't see how your viewpoint is logical either considering its also made of contrivances as well. And its not backed by "evidences"

I'm not trying to prove anything. My basic motivation is to show the illogical nature of this theory. I'm only arguments have to do with Sara motivations, whether they in fact makes sense for her to do as you say and whether it would be worth it for her, especially considered it not hinted in text. Also whether it is more logical that Yuuki for only acting on a craving she's been having for quite a while which I pointed out my reasoning already.

Ok. I see now. I'm not surprised if you were not reading the first few pages of this thread. No you didn't disappoint me because you've presented nothing of interest.

I did read them. I just pick points which I wanted to address and left other a lot of theories I found irrelevant to my basic argument.

You certainly love to mock people. It's kind of cute but I'm not the type to worry about it. I can't make see my point of view and I doubt I'll ever be able too. Its not my motivation anyway.

I don't know if the blood tablets were tasteless before as I don't remember that but I do remember it not being look on as a pleasant thing. Also both Yuuki and Maria seemed to find nothing amiss with these disgusting blood tablets. If there was a change it was most likely a while ago and has nothing to do with Sara.

Bloodredhead wrote:
Well in the first arc the tablets were said to be ‘tasteless’ and now they are described as tasting ‘horrible’, why did hino emphasis this if it wasn’t important to the plot or story? Makes me wonder about these tablets. And we have sara in this chapter changing the taste to make it more appealing. Why all this fuss on the taste unless it’s important? I’m not saying that the tablets are the reason why Yuuki went for Zero’s throat, as to me her thirst and her craving for his blood played a big part, I just don’t think we should ignore the possibility that the tablets, no matter how little, may have had an effect on Yuuki and her thirst. Sara has had plenty of time to already change them i think she's just perfecting her new tablets by making them more appealing to vampires, ie. making them taste better.

And why would sara try and put yuuki at a disadvantage? several reasons really.
1) Yuuki is kaname's weakness, if something is terribly wrong with her, he'd come running. Brings him out in the open and possibly vaulnerable to attack.
2) Yuuki is trying to be the leader in kaname's place at the moment if her position is jepordised then that leaves it vacant for someone else to take the seat of power, basically sara (she does want to be queen)
3) we have a blood thirsty pureblood vampire on the lose. dont think this would be good with humans so close by!

I agree why include them in the story if its just a filler. The part where Yuki tasted the tablets unpleasant and Sara creating tablets in a new taste were made close together, sara warning takuma that he shouldnt talk to yuki right when they're discussing BTs, and now yuki's craving. they were made close together it could mean they are related.
about the tasteless BT, I also dont see how that can be unpleasant but maria says it is, and so does the rest. how unpleasant can a tasteless tablet be? and if Sara is making the batch of good tasting tablets for the first time in VK society then imagine the appeal this would bring to the consumers, (mainly the Nightclass who are advocating peace and coexistence by not drinking blood) it would sell a lot.

rumland wrote:
Also what type of taste is being refered to here? Taste as in flavor or taste as in the impact of the event.
Yuki "feeling countless breaths of people you never meet before in a blink of an eye"
Then she talks about the taste, in this case I don't belive she is actualy talking about flavor, but the impact of it.

yuki also has the ability to take human's memories, perhaps what happened here is the result of that.
also the translation there is wrong it says countless faces instead of breaths from IEM:
http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/935138.html#cutid1

this can support that yuki just felt the memories of the humans whose blood were in that tablet, and if what happened in chapter 69 is true and she was able to take the recent memories of the girl, then she was able to take the recent memories of the human's bloods in the tablets, which means the tablet she just took was created recently. ofc, this is just assumption.

sweetsolace wrote:

Knightmare wrote:
All I know about this, is
that Yuuki says that she has to take what she wants with her own fangs
and that in those last moments at the thought of drinking from his
wrist, she makes a conscious decision to take from Zero's neck instead.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3PGgqA0TSAk8Ar5EuzET7RrXsLjg8JN1vPSDj8NkBZA?feat=directlink
That
she doesn't ask is rude and uncharacteristic, but she's still
controlling what she's doing and she's choosing not fighting her desire
for blood after she makes the conscious decision to accept Zero's blood.
There is no need for restraint here. So I'm not sure what is abnormal
in her this act, that she accepts Zero's blood or that she is rude about
it?

I think chapter 60 can null this conscious desire. Chapter 60 she was even wounded but she stopped herself before biting him. And now it makes sense for her to pounce on his neck? O.o

Ch60 is Yuuki stopping herself from an unconscious action/attack and the reasoning to stop herself in ch60 has no relevance to restraining herself now.

Why would she stop herself in ch73 when she's choosing to bite his neck? She's made a conscious decision to drink Zero's blood and has disregarded the reasons to not drink Zero's blood.

Zero is inviting her to drink his blood and its her preference to use her fangs and drink from his neck, reflecting what she said earlier, to take with her own fangs what she wants.

I was looking for a previuos post of mine . I found this instead .

Re: Chapter 69 translated/scanlation by Mangacurse also released
by mariangie on Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:12 am
Maybe as Juliet said , Sara is the one at the roof in page 15 . It will be interesting if Sara had succeded creating more resistant vampires . With more powers than the usual Level D / E .

Also is not so strange to think Sara making a better version of blood tablets , just for the vampires she created . It could be true . One good batch and one bad one .

I hope to see more about Sara in the next few chapters . What are at last her true plans ?

Also intrigued about Kaname . But no answers now . Maybe the next chapter Hino - sensei shows more .

So Sara indeed make two batches of blood tablets ????? Funny to predict this so far ago . Of course it's just theorical yet .

But the theory Sara using human kids blood / flesh for her good blood tablets appears to be a good one .

As Yuuki said the blood tablets she took were bad . Because she felt the feelings / lives of the people whose cells contributed to those blood tablets at the same time . Maybe because those feelings were corrupted / fill with bad emotions / despair / sadness .

Blood / flesh cells from bad / corrupted feelings ( as prisioners ) = bad tasting pills .

Blood / flesh cells from good / innocent feelings ( as small children / babies ) = good tasting pills .

S_R wrote:I'm generally having a hard time working out Sara's motivations here for giving Yuuki these pills. If they are for controlling her then I can understand it a bit. If it is for making her hungry I don't really see the purpose.

Having an untamed pureblood that can change people in campus is not a good purpose? Also the "hungry" part could be a part, a first part of the effects, so that part of course does not exclude others.

Sure, she might cause problems but how can she know Yuuki won't just bite one of the nobles like Aidou?

Because it won't take just a bite, plus vampires crave for human blood... (see Yuuki trying to go for Yori...If Yuuki hunger was that great, she would change Yori to a vampire...

You see all the project of human co-existence with vampires is based on this fact;

From the fanbook

Taste

They (Vampires) love human blood. Vampires desire blood by instict. Those who lose their reason will drink so much blood from a human that the human dies. Vampires do not drink blood for sustenance. They drink blood because they want to. Therefore, vampires do not die even if they do not drink blood. Blood tablets are available nowadays, so these can be used instead of drinking human blood. But human blood is special to a vampire, and they react quickly to its smell.

The urge to drink blood
A strong desire to drink blood arises regularly. When vampires smell blood they suddenly desire it.

Blood tablets
Tablets that restrain the urge to drink blood.

The effectiveness of the blood tablets developped by our nightclass has been verified all over the world.

So from the above what is it Sara's most likely plan since she decided to "tamper" the tablets? and who can proove she has not already aiming at the long term effects that the uneffectiveness of the tablets will cause to the nightclass and their new leader?

According to the above if she succeeds all the plan for co-existence goes down the drain, Yuuki is prooved innapropriate and incapable to tame her nightclass and she needs to be replaced while the project fails (again).

Also if it did this it wouldn't be a very useful tool for her in the future. Maybe she's just a Zeki and doing it for the Lawls? I don't know. And why only Yuuki? Zero seems the most vulnerable here. He also the one she seems more interested in. With him being close to becoming a Level E he'd certainly be the most at risk for her to persuade, at least in her mind.

Zero belongs to the hunters, she would get rid of a hunter in case he bite someone and that would not currently that fitted her plan.

A part of Zero's words fits all the above;

Zero: My blood
Drink it
If you keep being a coward like this
Your night class will crumble
Yuuki: I won’t take it
I don’t want to
Zero: I see, it will crumble then
I can’t leave the responsibility of the night class to someone who shows so obviously in her face what she desires.

So what is he saying actually? that he is giving her, his blood on order to ensure that she can rule the nightclass. So in reality, if Sara has tampered Yuuki's tablets, the Zero here is messing with Sara's plan. That can also make him a future target since it's obvious that Sara who has stated that she needs the hunter's hand would like to control him. That's why she offers him her blood as she see in that way she is controlling others.

Sara to Zero:

Sara: If you want my blood
I could give it to you…
I’m interested in the ones like you…
Maria: Ple…
Please stop…
If you tease Zero-kun… if you tease the next association’s leader,
You can cause serious trouble to this academy.

Spoiler:

I think the much more logical one is she was craving Zero blood since he was there. We know she was having craving for his blood when she was with Kaname. Aidou wondered why she was hungry even when having Kaname's blood and she admitted as much later to Kaname about her still be connected to him.

She wants blood, her hunger is increasing, she took tablets but she is all twisting in her mind; blood, craving. She is not going after Zero's blood despite her hunger, she actually denies it. Zero is the one luring her and finally pressing her to get it in order to prevent the worst. There is very significant parts in this chapter - this is not about Yuuki's desire to drink Zero's blood. This is about her desire to drink blood. She reflects to Zero as he ( as a close person to her) can eventually become her pray and I do not try to say that she has not feelings for him.

Yori's example shows us her desire to feed; this is the part that Sara is or will take advantage of. So instead of going so many chapters back let's just see Yuuki's desire for blood just some panels ago.

Whether you believe this love to be platonic or not, I won't argue this as it's just gets pointless people will believe what they want here, but it still seems much more likely without the need for random conjecture. I find this entire theory a bit... sad?

Sad for whom? LOL... I think there are clues, there are all the background elements that can support this theory. Apart from all, Yuuki just craving for Zero's blood,yes its possible, yes its okay but where is the rest of the script?
Like Sara has gone to the academy to create more tasty tablets and she just sits around waiting for their release and while she does that she is a bit spying on others?

Okay...could be also possible...but I think her plan in general (and here we are discussing her plan with the tablets) shows...

Sad for whom? LOL... I think there are clues, there are all the background elements that can support this theory. Apart from all, Yuuki just craving for Zero's blood,yes its possible, yes its okay but where is the rest of the script?
Like Sara has gone to the academy to create more tasty tablets and she just sits around waiting for their release and while she does that she is a bit spying on others?

Okay...could be also possible...but I think her plan in general (and here we are discussing her plan with the tablets) shows...

Look the theory relies on backward logic. The problem is you start with what you want to theory to do then you work your way backwards creating more theories to justify the logic. That's not actual logic. You create effects for these blood tablet that haven't been hinted at in the slightest. Why does she give them to her own servants if they do as you say? You created an elaborate off the screen switch that likewise hasn't been hinted at. The difference between the tablets other theories are created that likewise are built on thin air. Motivations for Sara are also constructed to justify it. All we know about Sara is that she wants to be Queen and is out for gaining power. Causing problems in the Night Class might definitely be in her plans but the way you theorize her doing so is only because you want it to fit your theory not because it actually fits it. You can basically use this kind of "reasoning" to theorize anything.

Look the theory relies on backward logic. The problem is you start with what you want to theory to do then you work your way backwards creating more theories to justify the logic. That's not actual logic. You create effects for these blood tablet that haven't been hinted at in the slightest. Why does she give them to her own servants if they do as you say?

To test them of course as for creating effects....

I am seeing Yuuki's hunger increasing. Did I create that? I see Yuuki wanting to devour Yori. Did I create that? I see her taking the tablets that are supposed to be verified affective from the whole world and yet Zero telling her that her craving is written to her face some panels afterwards. Did I create that also? He says that he is going to give her blood so that she can control the nightclass. Since when is hunger reaching that heights that Zero a level d vampires proposes to help a pureblood to remain stable? did I create that.

So you mind making a theory that could justify these reason other that the LT, one that would also justify Sara's implication with the tablets and her presence in school?

theorize her doing so is only because you want it to fit your theory not because it actually fits it. You can basically use this kind of "reasoning" to theorize anything

Want to make some rules to tell me what's the way to theorize? m..nevermind the trouble I know already...but the thing is that no matter how you try you can not find a way to deal with it, other part than attacking what? A theory? please...nobody attacked your Yuuki craving for Zero's blood theory...in this logic that you are stating its your logic that goes backwards...m...20 chapter that is? but its okay, after all I accept theories. So no bad feelings...

S_R wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:No one's saying its "evidence". That's why its called theory. some of the points you're raising were already answered or discussed prior to this, so just read them if that's not too much for you.

Theories are built on evidence. Your theory is that Sara is using the blood tablets to cause Yuuki cravings to increase. All I'm trying to show is that this theory is built on other theories which are only built on superstitions and conjecture. All I'm trying to show is the unsoundness of the theory. Whether you continue to believe it or not is irrelevant to me.

What makes this whole theory "built on other theories which are only built on superstitions and conjecture. "Do elaborate.If you think they're that way why don't you prove it wrong with your arguments? This blatant contradicting will not lead to anywhere anymore than bashing and proving your belief correct.

how is this theories "unsound"? If you narrate how this is unsound separately with evidences and with sound judgment and with proofs from the manga then your view point is not biased.

and what makes you think I care of what you think? so far you're not saying anything interesting.

I'm not trying to prove anything. My basic motivation is to show the illogical nature of this theory. I'm only arguments have to do with Sara motivations, whether they in fact makes sense for her to do as you say and whether it would be worth it for her, especially considered it not hinted in text. Also whether it is more logical that Yuuki for only acting on a craving she's been having for quite a while which I pointed out my reasoning already.

how is it illogical in nature?

how can you say Sara's motivation is not hinted?

how can you quickly dismiss that Yuki's only craving for a while and has nothing to do with tablets? It's such a simple and moronic idea that even a gradeschooler reading vampire knight would notice.

I did read them. I just pick points which I wanted to address and left other a lot of theories I found irrelevant to my basic argument.

you just picked up points you want? and you left other a lot of theories irrelevant to you? I'm not surprised you're just trashing this as irrelevant, if you only read what you like then whats the outcome? you will just be insisting your point, call it an argument, and trash others as superfluous while believing what you want. So what's the use coming here to discuss?

You certainly love to mock people. It's kind of cute but I'm not the type to worry about it. I can't make see my point of view and I doubt I'll ever be able too. Its not my motivation anyway.

oho me, mock you? maybe you're the one doing the mockery here by trolling others.

If the theories presented here are not making sense to you, that's not my problem.... But if you're just calling it names and bashing members who do it without trying to prove it wrong, then you have a problem..

I don't know if the blood tablets were tasteless before as I don't remember that but I do remember it not being look on as a pleasant thing. Also both Yuuki and Maria seemed to find nothing amiss with these disgusting blood tablets. If there was a change it was most likely a while ago and has nothing to do with Sara.

how do you know that Yuuki and Maria seemed to find nothing amiss with these disgusting blood tablets?

how do you know if there was a change it was most likely a while ago and has nothing to do with Sara?

Are you hino? How sure are you that your beliefs are correct?

Now after the intermission for friendly messages (LOL)...I want to comeback to the theory with Sara's bloodtablets...we see that the hunters know of Sara's involvement....

Spoiler:

the thing is that despite that they permited Sara's entrance to the academy

Spoiler:

Now if I am not mistaken this seems to be like the same hunter? there? how come under this speculations are the hunters permitting entrance to Sara in the academy?

Also Zero and kaito had seen Sara messing with the schoolgirls as you remember. So what's the hunter's agenda? are they so naive or is she under surveillance but she just does not know?

juliet wrote:To test them of course as for creating effects....

I am seeing Yuuki's hunger increasing. Did I create that? I see Yuuki wanting to devour Yori. Did I create that? I see her taking the tablets that are supposed to be verified affective from the whole world and yet Zero telling her that her craving is written to her face some panels afterwards. Did I create that also? He says that he is going to give her blood so that she can control the nightclass. Since when is hunger reaching that heights that Zero a level d vampires proposes to help a pureblood to remain stable? did I create that.

So you mind making a theory that could justify these reason other that the LT, one that would also justify Sara's implication with the tablets and her presence in school?

Yuuki hunger is not in question. But, we seen her craving blood when Yori walked by before Sara showed up. We see her biting herself and craving blood when she had "her loved one's" blood earlier. Those are facts and logic follows them that her craving might be natural to her without any outside influence. Now, that doesn't mean that it's the truth but logically it's a sound argument.

I'm not actually even asserting any theory. What I am doing though it trying to show how unsound this theory is. Let's start at the end. Yuuki hunger is growing so the theory being that the blood tablets are the cause of this. Now we don't have any evidence towards that. Right? We can theorize once again to them having these effects. Then how did she gets these pills to her? It isn't hinted or shown in this chapter or last? So once again a theory must be built on how she switched out these tablets. Also what about the differences in taste? Once again another theory constructed to explain this. Now also Sara motivations which are already very unclear for even coming there are also being inferred based these later theories. We don't use her already known reasoning and connect them up logically but we use one of many possibilities to connect to other possibilities and theories. As you can see a lot of this reasoning isn't solid. It depends on other things being true that aren't necessarily true. Like I said earlier I can't prove you wrong but I can prove your reasoning isn't solid.

Want to make some rules to tell me what's the way to theorize? m..nevermind the trouble I know already...but the thing is that no matter how you try you can not find a way to deal with it, other part than attacking what? A theory? please...nobody attacked your Yuuki craving for Zero's blood theory...in this logic that you are stating its your logic that goes backwards...m...20 chapter that is? but its okay, after all I accept theories. So no bad feelings...

Logic has rules as to how to tell a good theory from a bad/unsound one. Yes, I'm attacking this theory, I don't accept all theories. Some make sense some don't. I don't believe there is positive value in accepting any theory. In fact if people did that without critiquing then we'd never be able to separate good one from bads. The big bang didn't create the universe a giant space bunny did. Prove me wrong. You can't but you can show that from our knowledge such a thing is extremely unlikely.

Backward logic is fine as long as you can give evidence towards it and you aren't building evidence to fit your theory.

S_R wrote:
Yuuki hunger is not in question. But, we seen her craving blood when Yori walked by before Sara showed up. We see her biting herself and craving blood when she had "her loved one's" blood earlier. Those are facts and logic follows them that her craving might be natural to her without any outside influence. Now, that doesn't mean that it's the truth but logically it's a sound argument.

how do you say that's natural thirst? And how is Yuki's hunger not in question? how is it sure it is how you say it is, and that is being "sound"?

Yuuki hunger is growing so the theory being that the blood tablets are the cause of this. Now we don't have any evidence towards that. Right? We can theorize once again to them having these effects. Then how did she gets these pills to her? It isn't hinted or shown in this chapter or last? So once again a theory must be built on how she switched out these tablets. Also what about the differences in taste? Once again another theory constructed to explain this. Now also Sara motivations which are already very unclear for even coming there are also being inferred based these later theories. We don't use her already known reasoning and connect them up logically but we use one of many possibilities to connect to other possibilities and theories.As you can see a lot of this reasoning isn't solid. It depends on other things being true that aren't necessarily true. Like I said earlier I can't prove you wrong but I can prove your reasoning isn't solid.

how is yuki's thirst or zero and yuki's bite any more solid? I'm not the only one who thinks its too sudden either.

Logic has rules as to how to tell a good theory from a bad/unsound one. Yes, I'm attacking this theory, I don't accept all theories. Some make sense some don't. I don't believe there is positive value in accepting any theory. In fact if people did that without critiquing then we'd never be able to separate good one from bads. The big bang didn't create the universe a giant space bunny did. Prove me wrong. You can't but you can show that from our knowledge such a thing is extremely unlikely.
Backward logic is fine as long as you can give evidence towards it and you aren't building evidence to fit your theory.

and how is it that what you believe that yuki's thirst is normal? how is this "correct" way of perceiving it? how can you justify that?

who made the rules how logic should be, you? how do you tell a good theory from a bad one? and who set the criteria, you?

I dont belive that yuki's thirst is as bad as it is made out to be.
1 The first time we see her take them is right after the ordeal with zero and the vampire he shot, as well as meeting sara and hearing that sara accused kaname of uris death, She threw a tantrum so that was very emotional. 3 tablets.
2 The thing with yori, if yuki was so thirsty over that then why did she take only a single tablet dureing there meeting? I think she was trying to warn yori to be afrade of the night class in her own way, but failed realy bad at it, no fear factor at all.
3 The drag into forest part and going for zero's neck, this one should be obvious, she was told by another women that a man she loves was going to be taken away from her, then she see's that man carrying that other women and hides. She says she should not care what zero does with other women (should not care meaning she does care). So 1 and a half years of hungering for a guy she thinks she can never have cause she is a vampire, then she sees another vampire in his arms and gets jelous cause of it.
Did I miss any of the hunger fits or tablets takeing? Cause if we are useing only those 3 I posted then I see no unexplained hunger there.

sweetsolace wrote:how do you say that's natural thirst? And how is Yuki's hunger not in question? how is it sure it is how you say it is, and that is being "sound"?

Yuuki hunger isn't in question. We know that she is hungering. That's a fact. We all agree on it as far as I can tell. We are discussing the reason behind her hunger. That's what is in question. Like I said as to huge thirst natural I pointed out events before Sara showed up last chapter in which Yuki has also had similar cravings. Lets take for example humans hunger. You get hungry right? What's the cause? You get hungry when you don't eat right? You know this from experience. It's happened before so when you get hungry again you will naturally infer that's its due not to eating not to infer that its just elaborate plot to make you hungry right?

It possible that their was a plot to make you hungry? Sure but logically your going to have a hard time showing that to people without them thinking your crazy. I don't know if the my theory is correct but like I said it based on solid reasoning.

how is yuki's thirst or zero and yuki's bite any more solid? I'm not the only one who thinks its too sudden either.

and how is it that what you believe that yuki's thirst is normal? how is this "correct" way of perceiving it? how can you justify that?

The question for me is how is it abnormal? Like I said I don't believe it is based on previous scenes. You can disagree with that if you want but at least understand that logic is based on solid things. I didn't say it was correct but I say that my logic is understandable based on these events. I didn't construct these scenes to imply normalcy. If Yuki was not shown craving blood before this and then I inferred that she must have been just to give "evidence" towards my theory then my argument isn't really solid.

If you believe it is too sudden that still doesn't run counter to my argument. At least you acknowledge that these events are not unexpected even without the blood tablet theory.

rumland wrote:I dont belive that yuki's thirst is as bad as it is made out to be.

2 The thing with yori, if yuki was so thirsty over that then why did she take only a single tablet dureing there meeting? I think she was trying to warn yori to be afrade of the night class in her own way, but failed realy bad at it, no fear factor at all.

Sorry disappointing you, but that scary face of Yuki, dreading for her own thoughts and urges doesn't really support your Yuki-Yori theory



It looks pretty scared to me and not at all a you-have-to-be-afraid-of-me act little thing!