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    Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

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    juliet
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    Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:24 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

    I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

    During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

    There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

    We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

    So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

    Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

    I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

    First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

    I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

    I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

    What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?








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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by caela on Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:59 am

    Juliet
    okay I sort it out, I think , I see you incline towards the second theory; that the enemy of the pureblood that Kaname says that he intends to kill is not Rido but another pureblood/collaborating with the Senate that he needed power in order to be strong...and so the Senate after failing to get Yuuki to become a "sacrifice" used another pureblood in her position...to feed that monster while they also preserved Rido there and also feeding him with blood in order to resurrect him...

    It could be and it could be referring also to Rido who eventually needed as much as blood as possible as he could get in order to retrieve his first form/ the bad to this theory is that we are missing a candidate victim.

    But the Senate is confirmed (through Haruka) that intended to use the blood of pureblood and that's also another possible direction that the scenario could stretch. What were they needed the pure blood for? Why was Shizuka held there, It remains a mystery.

    @ About Yuki's blood;

    I think we can see that Yuki's powers are slowly revealed/ it seems like there are facts-powers that even Yuki does not know about herself and this fact can be attributed to the fact that she lost 10 years of development as a pureblood.

    Aido had said to Zero a lot of time ago that in reality the powers that purebloods have are unknown, only a pureblood knows his own powers. So its a bit confusing; Rido wanted to devour Yuuki and get her power but eventually Yuuki was presented as too weak, so was the trait that only the Kuran blood has and Rido needed so bad?

    Kaname said when visiting Rido's tomb that "take it the purest blood of Kuran, you corrupted everything for that"...he needs the Kuran blood to be resurrected regardless of how much blood he has received in the past. Why because of the lineage? or because of the blood's quick healing attributes? So getting Yuuki there should be a must in order for Rido's resurrection to be completed.

    Powers that we see in Yuuki;
    -breaking spells
    -helping others to retrieve their memories
    -ability to transform in a butterfly
    -anti-vampire power
    -(?) re-generating powers that heal fast (thus Kaname used his own blood as a medicine back in time for humans).

    With all the above and the pacifism attributes that Yuuki has is no wonder that Kaname wanted in the house as much as possible when she was still defenseless.


    Sorry for the slow response; I needed some time before even approaching the topic again (so few clues, so guessing is just guessing).

    ***********

    About Rido:

    I feel like he couldn't have been the enemy of the purebloods; Thirteen year old Kaname blasted Rido into chunks eleven years ago and Rido only recovered partially in time for his attack on Cross Academy. Rido was blamed for putting Shizuka's level-D lover on the execution list five years ago, but Rido was still not recovered.

    *********

    About the candidate victim:

    I think the candidate victim was supposed to be killed by Shizuka Hio. She might have said "no" to being an assassin and her lover was killed as a punishment.

    Her refusal put her in danger, so she pretended to be insane to protect anyone who was close to her and then she went missing.

    Her "revenge" on the Kiryu's might have been a calculated attempt at gaining power: she took Ichiru and made the stronger twin, Zero, a blood servant, without giving Zero any of her own blood. Her attempt to control the cursed twins may have been a way to get more power to defend herself and revenge herself against the enemy of the purebloods.

    When Zero was now old enough to be useful, she went to Cross Academy.

    *********

    The actual intended victim for Hio to kill (and probably the eventual victim of the greatest crime of the pureblood history) was probably another pureblood child and a relative of the Kurans, like Yuuki was. If child Yuuki was the preferred target, the next best target would be another Kuran pureblood (especially with all the emphasis on needing Kuran pureblood, as you pointed out Juliet): is it possible that Rido and Shizuka had a child....

    Maybe Shizuka had a child with Rido that she was hiding? If she loved her level-D lover so much, what other possible reason would there be for Hio being separate from him when he was executed by the Kiryuu's?

    I guess I see it as Shizuka was aware of an impending simultaneous attack on her Level-D lover and an attack on her child. Both were in different places. Shizuka chose to save her child but was not fast enough to save the child.

    *******

    I'm confused by what you mean by Yuuki's anti-vampire power...


    *******

    With all the above and the pacifism attributes that Yuuki has is no wonder that Kaname wanted [Yuuki]in the house as much as possible when she was still defenseless.

    Agreed.

    *********

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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by nina on Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:49 pm

    sweetsolace wrote: Kaname seems to use a cover or a screen to hide his true plans from all, but the question is why. in my opinion he uses this cover something like smoke.

    "He smokes them out of their pretense" to make them reveal their sides and their true natures.

    This is what I’m thinking too currently.^^ Although that it could be one aspect of his plan, however the next steps are very confusing right now. *sigh*

    about sara and what she said in chapter 65 pertaining to the broken treaty, how can that be since the treaty was not officially broken until chapter 68 when Kaname went out in the open to kill? and why she said that when Takuma found out she imprisoned the president it doesnt seem related somehow.

    I based my assumption on the outcome … what that harem caused. The creation of the harem brought on the surface how fragile this mutual agreement between Kaname and the hunters was. Thus far Sara’s harem doesn’t seem to have any other use. Maybe it will have in the future Idk.

    Also why Sara would need “to put her fangs” into a contract that concerned president’s research? It was so easy for her to make him a submissive puppet as she did actually. I think her line “put my fangs” was meant metaphorically and not literally. But I could be wrong though …

    yes indeed Kaname is testing their common sense and ability to think it seems, LOL, its like a question of:
    will you follow emotions or brain?

    ROFL … to me seems like an IQ test haha … Who’s gonna pass the test; and who’s gonna fail? Razz

    caela wrote: Nina (Re: Most sinful crime in the history of Purebloods)

    The Rido attack on the Kurans eleven years ago was ruled a double suicide officially, so I don't think that the big crime was that. Shizuka disappeared around five years ago. Maybe it had to do with the level-e vampire that made Yagari lose an eye? That sounds like its in the right time period. (if the event was so big, there has to be a clue of the crime somewhere in the manga)

    The double suicide was a cover from senate and Asato cuz they were behind Rido’s attack. So naturally they didn’t want to be exposed their filthy role. The fact that they covered the incident with a fake excuse indicates the sinful dimension of their act.

    Yes Shizuka disappeared 5 years ago and the attack at Kurans mansion was 6 years before Sara disappears. It’s not that long especially considering how vampires perceive the pass of time. However I’m not insisting that Aido-dono was referring on this attack … it’s only an assumption since we do not have any other incident which can fit with Aido’s description.

    On the other hand the incident that you mentioned, about how Yagari lost his eye, is too minor to be characterized as the most sinful crime in the history of the PBs lol. As juliet also confirmed >>

    juliet wrote: the crime is connected with killing a pureblood, the vampire's society gravest crime is to kill a pureblood - stated in the fan book,

    caela wrote: What is more suspicious is that the Hunter Association had control of their own Level-E's.

    The HA didn’t have under control their own level-es … as a matter of fact I think that they were level-ds cuz level-es are not controllable, they are insane. Anyway the point is that the small “army” of vampires that attacked the academy was sent from the senate/Asato to aid the previous president and the rest of the hunters. >> “Since when did the HA become so friendly with the dogs from VAMPIRE COUNCIL?”
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-13/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

    It’s obvious that the rest of the hunters didn’t know about this filthy collaboration>>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-14/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

    The corrupted president reveals the common plan he had with the senate > each part should eliminate the inconveniences of the other. Which practically means the hunters should wipe off the NC and the dogs of the senate Cross and Yagari.
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-12/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

    Also the DC wasn’t secured either cuz as we saw the senate’s dogs tried to attack humans as well. It was the NC who saved the DC eventually.

    So >>
    The corrupt former president of the Hunter Association must have a pureblood ally controlling the level-E's. The same corrupt former president made a deal with the Vampire council as well: So this deal might be a three way deal between the two organizations and the mystery pureblood.

    >> the above interpretation is based on what? … There is no sign that the president had a PB as ally. However the president did receive blood from a PB but through the senate in return of his collaboration. The PB was probably Rido.

    This mystery pureblood does not have full control over his/her powers: I believe this explains the attack on the Kuran's for Yuuki eleven years ago.

    Behind the attack at the Kuran’s mansion were Rido (PB) and the senate which reinforced Rido with its dogs lol. Rido’s and senate’s first target were the Kurans i.e. the core of coexistence (their biggest obstacle), plus their thick and most wanted blood. >> The Kurans is the only family which can give birth PBs with the ability to wield anti-vampire weapons. This anti-vampire ability gives them an advantage against any other PB … is the power that brought the Kurans one the top of the pyramid of vampires world. That’s why Rido was the best candidate for Asato’s plan … he was a Kuran, he could wield anti-vampire weapon thus IF all the other Kurans ceased to exist that would open the road for Rido to be the “king”… The question ofc is how Asato intended to get rid of Rido afterwards, and I mean IF he had succeeded to eliminate Kaname and Yuuki and the entire PB’s race …

    However this doesn’t mean that the senate manipulated only Rido … they had Shizuka from her birth caged, Sara was close to Asato … Kaname himself said that before Yuuki’s birth the senate had under control 19 PBs … so the possibility to exist another PB as the final “boss” (the one who ruined the fate of the PBs) still stands.
    Although, IF so my opinion is that the reference “the one who ruined the fate of the PBs” fits better to an ancestor >> maybe there was one PB who guided the others in the ancient battles against Kaname and the hunters. >>>



    >>>





    The above figure could be ONLY ONE of the PBs who created an army of slaves but could be their leader ???… >>>



    >>>





    So they were building a castle for whom? For all of them or for their leader? Does this castle still exist? >>

    Cross (when Yuuki “hijacked” hunters’ wagon, chapter 67) :

    “Yuuki in this direction is an ANCIENT castle of HANADAGI’S family you know…” (< this is a different version of translation)
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/27











    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



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    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by SassyKnight on Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:06 am

    Well Kaname is definitely planning something. Everything he has ever done was all part of his master plan.

    Killing Shizuka, Rido's death, ignoring Zero's forbidden act and letting him gain more power, was all part of it. He's going to kill Sara, then he might try to make Yuki a human again (Which Yuki would stop him) And I hate to say it to everyone, but he might die...Because Shizuka said that only darkness will be in his path...But I dont know...
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by Divine Rose on Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:03 am

    Saffron161 wrote:Well Kaname is definitely planning something. Everything he has ever done was all part of his master plan.

    Killing Shizuka, Rido's death, ignoring Zero's forbidden act and letting him gain more power, was all part of it. He's going to kill Sara, then he might try to make Yuki a human again (Which Yuki would stop him) And I hate to say it to everyone, but he might die...Because Shizuka said that only darkness will be in his path...But I dont know...

    He said he changed his path of making Yuuki human again, so I doubt he will try that. Also, if he was going to make Yuuki human again, he should have done it a long time ago. Razz But he will probably try to sacrifice his life in another way which Yuuki will stop him from.

    It looked like that Zero was going to die in the first arc, but he didn't. With all this pointing to Kaname's death, I highly doubt he will die. Authors usually like to surprise the readers with a character's death, not shout it all a long time before it happens.

    Well, there is a chance that Kaname (also any character in VK) will die, but I highly doubt it. If any character dies that is good, we probably won't see it coming.

    Anyways, it does look like Kaname's plan is to die at the end of his plan, or maybe not. It would be hard for him to protect Yuuki if he's dead. Kaname is full of mysteries, and so is his plans. And it probably won't be fully revealed til it's all said and done.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:46 am



    About Rido:

    I feel like he couldn't have been the enemy of the purebloods; Thirteen year old Kaname blasted Rido into chunks eleven years ago and Rido only recovered partially in time for his attack on Cross Academy. Rido was blamed for putting Shizuka's level-D lover on the execution list five years ago, but Rido was still not recovered.

    Okay, but he still fits the description because his actions were not light and did bring death to baby Kaname, Haruka, Yuri while he also changed the fate the Yuki and Kaname. So despite being blasted, he had done already a damaged that could not be fixed. But its still an issue...

    About the candidate victim:



    Her "revenge" on the Kiryu's might have been a calculated attempt at gaining power: she took Ichiru and made the stronger twin, Zero, a blood servant, without giving Zero any of her own blood. Her attempt to control the cursed twins may have been a way to get more power to defend herself and revenge herself against the enemy of the purebloods.

    When Zero was now old enough to be useful, she went to Cross Academy.

    I agree with Shizuka's plan where we can speak with more evidence;

    What did Shizuka wanted?

    Spoiler:


    The man that killed her lover

    Spoiler:

    So certainly Shhizuka had come into academy in order to finish what she started; to take revenge about her lover that was killed. Zero was also a mean to get there and actualize her revenge, so she had to gather that pawn in order to kill the pureblood that had brought doom to her way (and add to that point that she also liked Zero as well Razz ). That's why she does not finish Zero, she needs him to get him in her game.

    Apparently Shizuka never went insane, the Senate lied about her condition as much as the lied about Kuran's suicidal desire in order to cover its traces and its acts of blame> probably because in both cases they were covering the main person responsible and for the Kuran's death and also the murder of the Kiruy's by allowing him access to the hunter's list.


    The actual intended victim for Hio to kill (and probably the eventual victim of the greatest crime of the pureblood history) was probably another pureblood child and a relative of the Kurans, like Yuuki was. If child Yuuki was the preferred target, the next best target would be another Kuran pureblood (especially with all the emphasis on needing Kuran pureblood, as you pointed out Juliet): is it possible that Rido and Shizuka had a child....

    Rido had indeed a child with another woman; its pictured in a diagram in the fan book. But its not with Shizuka and the woman is not a pureblood (or her status is not referred). In aspects of that child we assume that is the kid that was used in the party...and later on appears to Shiki, when Shiki visits the basement of his uncle where Rido's body was preserved and kept. Its not stated though clearly that this is Rido's descedant/ the funny part is how Rido had kids and also changed lists at the condition he was? rofl rofl rofl no I do not want to imagine but it seems to be the case.


    I'm confused by what you mean by Yuuki's anti-vampire power...

    Her main power to wield anti-vampire weapons, its actually her greatest trait and in a way curse because she instantly becomes a target.


    Also why Sara would need “to put her fangs” into a contract that concerned president’s research? It was so easy for her to make him a submissive puppet as she did actually. I think her line “put my fangs” was meant metaphorically and not literally. But I could be wrong though …

    In relation to the peace treaty, Sara used her "fangs" a lot of times (if this is what she means eventually)...

    She changed the hunter that killed Ouri...she changed the president, she changed humans that she kept in her basement and perhaps that basement was the real home of all these unexpected vampires that we see here and there kidnapping children and causing chaos. So even if she does not mean it literally, lol, literally her fangs have caused instability.

    The Rido attack on the Kurans eleven years ago was ruled a double suicide officially, so I don't think that the big crime was that. Shizuka disappeared around five years ago. Maybe it had to do with the level-e vampire that made Yagari lose an eye? That sounds like its in the right time period. (if the event was so big, there has to be a clue of the crime somewhere in the manga)

    Yes Shizuka disappeared 5 years ago and the attack at Kurans mansion was 6 years before Shizuka disappears. It’s not that long especially considering how vampires perceive the pass of time. However I’m not insisting that Aido-dono was referring on this attack … it’s only an assumption since we do not have any other incident which can fit with Aido’s description.

    It is a high possibility, as Aido-dono conceals his words so he seems to want to be gentle with this matter but what about the sacrifice part that he refers to? I mean how that confirms the rumor that he heard from Ichiou that Kaname won't hesitate to sacrifice them? because that was the part that Aido-dono was mostly giving emphasis on using as an example that "past crime". So we need a pureblood killing a pureblood or a human killing a pureblood but in this case it would have to seem that Kaname is letting that crime to be committed or he sustains it passively in order to serve a superior scope. How can that apply to the Kurans? And here the script makes us wonder scratch


    The question ofc is how Asato intended to get rid of Rido afterwards, and I mean IF he had succeeded to eliminate Kaname and Yuuki and the entire PB’s race…

    That's a good question, the easy answer are the hunters which in a way already through their president listened the orders of the Senate, even without knowing it.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by caela on Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:52 pm

    Sorry, can't stay and debate, leaving you guys with a picture of who I think is the enemy of the purebloods:
    Chapter 41, page 5



    pic same as link

    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2167-6/vampire-knight/chapter-41.html

    Might match Nina's picture of the hypothetical general who fought against Kaname.

    Also, I just found the page by accident recently.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by zeroyuuki666 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:17 pm

    who knows really she might surprise us
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by aya-chan on Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:06 pm

    caela wrote:Sorry, can't stay and debate, leaving you guys with a picture of who I think is the enemy of the purebloods:
    Chapter 41, page 5



    pic same as link

    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2167-6/vampire-knight/chapter-41.html

    Might match Nina's picture of the hypothetical general who fought against Kaname.

    Also, I just found the page by accident recently.

    The man with a hat and eye glasses is just a servant of rido or vampire council. he doesn't represent a treat.

    @nina: that panel, in my opinion, bring with hanadagi, when his hair was shorter.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:37 pm

    @juliet
    conditions have change but I do not see contradiction points between the
    two plans. Both Asato and Sara were seeing humans as slaves, they both
    want the Kurans to fall and remain at the top of the pyramid, Asato did
    want to exterminate all purebloods and I see that Sara’s actions have
    put in the game other purebloods as well>

    Asato clearly said that he was using Rido to bring down Kaname, he sent Takuma to the academy to spy on him which failed, he lay guardianship over Kaname after his parents were murdered, all that to find a way to kill him and the rest of the purebloods.
    Sara also does similar things as him when she kidnapped Takuma to get info on Kaname, but the problem is not her plans but how her actions fit into this supposed plans.
    For example, she killed Ouri at the party, causing suspicion that was not directly implicated to the organizer of the party, Kuran---the suspicion spread out to all purebloods at the party, and they didn't manage to rule out the suspect. It was supposed to be a party to show how many supporters Kaname has, but not directly for peace purposes. So what Sara did there it only created a bad reputation for the purebloods, but not to Kaname.
    And if what Sara said in chapter 65 is connected to her purpose in disrupting the "agreement" in that incident at the ball (chapter 53-54) the timing and place where she said it seems inappropriate, not to mention delayed: Takuma was there, when in fact she can tell him her purpose after she killed Ouri on the car after the ball, not chapters later.

    Touma trying to stop Yuki from going any further seems like a reasonable argument, I find it a good observation, however he was prompted when Yuki made a careless remark against his bats, so what if she didn't? Kaname punished Touma then afterwards by invading his castle, which was like a declaration of war.

    Kaname and Sara's plans seem to work together on the surface:
    -Kaname allowed Sara to get away with killing Ouri
    -Kaname allowed Sara to take Hanadagi's heart and he also cleaned up after her.
    -Sara's actions seems careless enough to leave the mess for Kaname to clean up, which might mean she is confident he will clean it. She didn't actually kill Hanadagi for herself (if her plans involve killing all purebloods) rather she escaped with only the heart in tow and left Hanadagi alive.

    if anything its Sara and Kaname whose plans are looking like its headed towards the same direction, in a way that they're both making the reputation of the purebloods bad: Sara by making her tablets and her harem, Kaname through killing purebloods. So maybe, just maybe, that they have the same means but different ends, like Kaname wants coexistence thru this and Sara wanted to be queen?

    well but I suppose it depends on how its viewed, I see Sara and Kaname's plans are similar in terms of the effects, and Sara and Asato's plans are similar because of the means they do to achieve it

    We
    agree that the president’s words seems pro peace but eventually as I
    wrote in my previous post, he never had to know the scope, the first
    goal was to make a research so that he could get some results of it, one
    thing at the time.
    why he never had to know the scope? he is the president of the company and Asato is just the founder, the founder has no control over the operations of the tablets, he only supplies financial support and other back ups, thats the purpose of the president, to rule over any decisions made towards the tablets. The company was made to supply blood tablets. but since the question is about the Research, in reality we can only make assumptions as to who ordered it and who started it since really, there is no way for you to tell that founder Asato ordered president to do it, especially when they have different views (Asato is bad, President is good etc) .


    Asato said that he wanted to extinguish all purebloods and Sara says that wants one person to be left alone in the end, not I…
    well technically its not the same at all. Razz asato wanted ALL purebloods gone, sara wants everyone BUT HER gone. Razz

    The tablets have as a target the general population> this does
    not change the fact that Sara may want to get all the purebloods out of
    the way so she has no rivals for the throne. The one point does not
    contradict each other because there are two dimensions here; purebloods
    and general vampires/ex-humans that can be controlled with pureblood
    powers. And apparently her control over the general population will give
    her an army that can also protect her and support her majesty in
    relation to how accepted and favorite among others she will be> (see
    Yuuki’s case).
    this actually highlights her priorities----that she wants to be Queen more than she wants to eliminate everyone. Its as if she wants to experience the feeling foremost more than the idea of actually killing any purebloods because so far she is not moving towards it.
    another things that contradict here:
    she says she wants everyone but her to vanish --but does she say what race she wants to kill? no... and if she does mean she wants all purebloods to vanish but her, it contradicts her intentions in chapter 71 when she made Kaname more evil in everyone's eyes by passing her kill to him... Kaname is doing her supposed wish to get rid of everyone but her, and she is turning against him by provoking the hunters and even Yuki to take arms against him.
    Another thing Sara needs a hunter's hand to accomplish her goal, if she plans to do this then where is the hunter's hand? Zero was a candidate but she stopped pursuing him after that one moment. So exactly how important is a hunters hand for Sara, in equivalent sence how important is it for her to kill the rest of her race? IMO not that much...seeing as she went for domination first..


    This is why I asked you if your disagreement concerns Asato’s
    plan in overall thus the fact that Sara wants to dominate all, remain
    the one and bring down pacifism or if you disagree just with the
    tablet’s theory.
    you asked me?? I did not read it..
    And here youre saying that Asato and Sara's plans are the same but Asato doesnt want to be a king, he wants purebloods to vanish, while Sara wants to sit on top of the throne..
    the tablets theory was more like she wants to dominate everyone, for everyone to be her puppets, rather than to kill purebloods.

    And Sara also accidental moves in for the research that suits her plans
    and can be used to do terrible things? Or discovers it with her visit
    there? No, she knew that the president had a research there, that’s why
    she visits him. That’s why she wants to control the pharmaceutical
    company and she also needs Takuma. And Takuma says that Sara was a
    person that the president had met in the past. But when in the past?
    Because it seems that after Asato’s death, Takuma has not visited the
    president again.
    in chapter 65 the president says when he was in prison:
    "I intend to understand the danger concerning purebloods... But I cant believe I was caught off guard"
    not only does he emphasize the word "I" pertaining himself as the one who operates the research but he also makes it seem like he had make a mistake in exposing that research to Sara. He was "caught off guard" possibly indicates that Sara did something to squeeze the research out from him.
    Her prior visit to him means she has established enough friendship/familiarity to be used as a decoy to get him into her trap... of which he apparently fell for. "he was caught off guard" because he thought Sara was an acquaintance, having known her in the past, he would not suspect she had such intentions.

    If Sara needs this step> making slaves and an army to secure her
    position, imagine how much Asato would be needing such a thing. And here
    is where the president’s phenomenal research becomes handy.
    I still do not see how a dead man can have involvement into this, if for some reason he had secured Sara to be his successor somewhat shouldn't he have prepared for this by making it more easier for her? Like telling the president in advance to give their research to her so she would not have any difficulty having to control him? she has to act like the president was in actual opposition to her plans, and it doesnt even make sense that he would not know he was working on something evil considering his morals show that he doesnt want chaos.

    For the vampires the greatest danger that the purebloods summon is the
    use of the controlling powers. So I think that this was the research
    about- how dangerous the powers can become if used under certain ways
    and the effects over the population> not just the powers but the
    actual use of the powers that eventually create the danger. At least
    that’s how I interpret this phrase in relation to how Sara uses this
    research to do terrible things> I suspect that the ultimate use of
    the tablets is to tame and to control the vampires as Sara wants.
    I see what you mean and I agree, finally, lol. So again it goes back to the question what does Sara wants most? Its to become queen, not to kill everyone so she will be alone to rule, I believe by her hands and actions she does more things that will make everyone be controlled and hypnotized by her, especially the tablets, her harem, prisoners, etc. The killing part is just one of her plans IMO because I dont see her interested in it.

    @Yuki being pursued
    The circumstances to which she was hid and the moment she is turned is what I'm questioning, not that the Senate wishes for young blood because that is obvious. Another thing I suspect here is that when the real baby Kaname was born Haruka and Juri did not seem like they wanted to hide him, it was only after he was killed that they became armed to the teeth towards Yuki. So why the change there? If Kaname was not taken by Rido, would they have hid him or turned him into human? and again why Haruka and Juri waited until Yuki was five years old and their house was under attack that she decided to turn Yuki? she can do it right after she was born but she had to let her live for five years old.

    @the senate and the tablets
    the senate is dead. the tablets that were started by the senate were taken over by Sara with her new goals. New goals.
    I just dont see how this two connect on the same sentence because both asato and the senate are dead and they didnt look like they left will and testaments to the others... lol.

    All these of course are a theory but the link between Asato and the
    president existed, the intention was there and the tablets eventually
    were used to reach the general population > could Asato disregard
    such an opportunity to finally manipulate the powers of the purebloods

    and establish his position that as a noble he needed more than actually
    Sara needs it right now? I do not exclude the possibility because it
    blends many elements together.
    the only link that exists is that Asato is the founder of the company and the president is the president, theres no real connection they didnt even talk about any research. Who knows if the pres is even the same pres as the one in Asato's time or he was replaced, after all he is probably human..
    and you actually said it... he had the means to make it happen through the tablets but for some reason he hired a president of the company that didn't want chaos and instead he used Rido to achieve his plans (instead of the tablets)... so what does this mean??? how are they related when the views are different in the first place?

    @nina

    Also why Sara would need “to put her fangs” into a contract that
    concerned president’s research? It was so easy for her to make him a
    submissive puppet as she did actually. I think her line “put my fangs”
    was meant metaphorically and not literally. But I could be wrong though …
    another translation it shows "agreement" not contract.... its an assumption that she and the president made an agreement before during her last visit (as mentioned) and presumably when she found out he was not seeing things the way she did she thought it became unreliable and made him into a puppet.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by nina on Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:17 pm

    aya-chan wrote:
    caela wrote: Sorry, can't stay and debate, leaving you guys with a picture of who I think is the enemy of the purebloods:
    Chapter 41, page 5

    The man with a hat and eye glasses is just a servant of rido or vampire council. he doesn't represent a treat.

    @nina: that panel, in my opinion, bring with hanadagi, when his hair was shorter.

    I have to agree with aya again … the man with the glasses and the hat is a lower vampire that probably Shiki dealt with him >> look the last left panel >> Shiki is ready to attack with his blood to that “intruder”. Most likely he wiped him off since afterwards him and Rima “escaping” from the dorms untouched.
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-24/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html

    @ aya that it was what I thought too. Hino has emphasized on Hanadagi and his castle (with lots of depictions and its high security) and Kaien confirmed that his castle is ancient one. It seems waste of time and panels if Hana is just an ordinary PB without any farther involvement in the story. But for now is just an assumption … we shall see. XD

    **************************

    PS. Juliet and Sweet I’ll remove the conversation on Sara’s thread cuz I think it fits better there.
    http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t770p30-what-does-sara-want
    I hope you don’t mind. pale





    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

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    What is the real plan of Kaname Kuran??????? The Key of your Question

    Post by rabbit on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:39 am

    KANAME KURAN PLANS

    Hi! I created a research analysis of what is the real plan of Kaname. Well, I will base my analysis through chapter to chapter. Maybe somebody will disagree and somebody will agree but I'm open to all the possibilities. I will let you think about it. ALL MY EVIDENCE IS ALL FACTS FROM THE BOOK.


    HOPE YOU ALL READ MY EVIDENCES AND MY ANALYSIS BELOW!!!

    VK Chapter 64: page1: Kaname: This is about the distant past. I was doing a certain kind of experiment... page 2: K aname: on Our Abnormal Ability to resurrect ourselves, and how to stop it.
    Narrator: "Like the bottom of the sea--- another experiment by the name of Kaname."

    Kaname: the core of the experiment was a part of my own body.
    Hooded Woman: There is no need for that kind of experiment, what does it do for us?
    Kaname: For MANKIND?
    page3 Kaname: AFTER NUMEROUS EXPERIMENTS, I HAD FINALLY FOUND ONE POSSIBILITY PERHAPS THE ONLY THING CAN KILL US IS OURSELVES[/i] page 4 " a specific part of the flesh and blood of our body can alter the metallic soup"


    Kaname: page 6 "I didn't wish for that woman's sacrifice in the least. THAT WAS WHAT I HAD INTENDED TO DO MYSELF."

    VK Chapter 67 page 39:Kaname Kuran said to Yuuki Kuran: I'm done Hesitating..... I made my choice only once to stay with you however,"I'am going to fulfill my Original Plans." I'm SORRY Thank you, Yuuki....

    So, What is Kaname Kuran Original Plans

    VK Chapter 74 page 30:

    Kaname said to Kaien Cross: Chairman..... No, you're here as the chairman of the association.
    Kaien Cross said to Kaname: and also as Yuuki's adoptive father I've come to tell you that I will never return Yuuki to you.
    Kaname: and you has also started to rely on her own will in order to carry on living.... Chairman

    Chapter 74 page 31:
    Kaname: I can no longer chain her to me that's why for you to snatch yuuki from my side, I'm really thankfull and that is bec. If I want to eliminate all the purebloods, YUUKI WILL JUST BECOME A OBSTACLE."

    Chapter 74 page 32:
    Kaname said to Kaien Cross: YES..... If you want to prevent me from doing this then I crush everyone even if it's you."

    Chapter 75 page9:
    Kaien Cross: Kaname-Kun my expectations I wanted them to be off. WHY?! WHY are you trying to annihilate all the purebloods.

    Chapter75 page 10:
    Kaname: the question you ask is very strange.... you, who made deals w/ vampires for such a long time should be the one to understand the most but.......

    Kaien Cross: I, Kaname, thought you had decided page 11 yuuki the path which both of you walked together....

    page 11 FLASH BACK FROM THE PAST (CONVERSATION BETWEEN KURAN, KANAME AND KAIEN CROSS)
    Kaien Cross: One Day... you will finally confess what responsibility you have been shouldering,


    Kaname: To me when yuuki, grows up it is certain that she cannot keep her "HUMAN STATUS". When that time comes I think this time... It will be my turn to change Yuuki back into human....

    Chapter 75 page 12:
    Kaien Cross: The PLANS you made that time never happened to tell you the truth, I'm relieved bec. they did not expect that Juri-Sama would end up like that but after changing the plan is this the plan you choose....??? Yuuki still believes in you somewhere in her heart.

    Chapter 75 page 13: Kaname: it really suit yuuki's style... please tell yuuki that being said, she will still wake up from the illusion and realize what is really goin on. tell her I killed Ouri-san and next would be sara shirabuki.


    ANALYSIS:


    Based on VK Chapter 63 and Chapter 64 Through a series of Kaname's experiment Kaname discovers that the only thing which can kill purebloods is the flesh and blood of other purebloods and can alter the metallic soap. [i]Orginally Kaname intends to sacrifice himself to create anti-vampire weapons to help the humans.
    The human are suffering from the doing of the purebloods vampires bec. in just an instant they can create there army that make pure blood stronger.

    Well, As Kaname said to Yuuki that he will fulfill his original plan. Kaname's original plan sacrifice himself, but bec. he love Yuuki he will kill first all the pureblood base on VK Chapter 74 pages 31, 32 and sacrifice his life for yuuki to be human again like what Juri-sama did (her mom). only purebloods can turn vampire back or make them in human. Based in the evidence above, If yuuki will stop Kaname to kill the purebloods (like yume fanclub wish). I think it's to late for that bec. Kaname already started the fight against the purebloods and other noble vampire. If ever that's will happens, the purebloods will definitely attack Kaname or Yuuki. So Kaname won't allow that to happen, so he will finish what he started. If yuuki will be a human again and the purebloods are gone (the roots of all evil) I think it going to be much better bec. purebloods who has the only power and capability to create an army in just an instant which means they can be more powerful. FROM THE PERIOD TIME this is what the hooded woman and kaname don't to happen THEY ARE SLAVING HUMAN TO BE PART OF THERE ARMY... THE PROBLEMS OF THE HUMAN. So, I think it time to have a new era of leadership and stop the pureblood vampires the rule the human and the world.


    My analysis is base on facts from the book of Vampire Knights.

    I admire Kaname somehow by thinking of that but however, not all pureblood vampires are evil/bad like yuuki's parents so it is unfair to kill all the purebloods. Maybe they're still newborn, toddler pureblood who are still innocent and still don't know what's goin on. I can compare kaname to Anakin Skywalker that he killed all the Jedi Knight even the young Jedi. Back on the topic, No matter what Yuuki do to stop him he cannot' allow yuuki to interfere his plan bec. he want Yuuki is 100% safe from the pureblood who want to attack her or steal herlife and he want to accomplish what he left in the past.

    it's not just possibilities but it is also facts.

    through researching i think i already have my answer.

    P.S. hope you all understand my grammar. sorry if there are wrong.
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    sweetsolace
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:22 am

    There's already a topic like this here
    http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t429-kaname-s-kuran-plan-of-action-is-heading-where




    Well, As Kaname said to Yuuki that he will fulfill his original plan. Kaname's original plan sacrifice himself, but bec. he love Yuuki he will kill first all the pureblood base on VK Chapter 74 pages 31, 32 and sacrifice his life for yuuki to be human again like what Juri-sama did (her mom)

    Kaname's original plan is unknown. His main purpose is to protect Yuki. His first option to do that is to sacrifice his life to turn her back to human when the human spell is exhausted.
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/11

    The spell, as we witnessed, was broken when Rido invaded the academy. And there was NO SACRIFICE. Instead, Kaname turned her back to pureblood himself. See chapter 35.

    Kaien voices his relief that he didn't do it and he had a CHANGE OF PLANS:
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/12

    Kaname says, "My main purpose remains the same, only the path has changed."
    in other words, he's saying his main purpose to protect Yuki still the same, only this time the way to achieving it is different.
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/26

    *the translation as uploaded in different sites is flawed in several areas , but my quotation should be more accurate. The links only serve as visual reference

    If yuuki will stop Kaname to kill the purebloods (like yume fanclub wish). I think it's to late for that bec. Kaname already started the fight against the purebloods and other noble vampire.
    why is it too late to stop him?
    And who said its a fight when Kaname's the one on the offensive and the rest are cowering from him?

    If yuuki will be a human again and the purebloods are gone (the roots of all evil) I think it going to be much better bec. purebloods who has the only power and capability to create an army in just an instant which means they can be more powerful.
    Again, Yuki being human theory is a pretty desperate leap to make Zero and Yuki end together and it doesn't make much sense.
    1. the vampires already know her existence. Turning her back will not serve the purpose to protect her identity as once pureblood.
    2. There's a possibility Yuki will break the human spell again like she did before.
    3. her life is more vulnerable as a human than as a pureblood.

    FROM THE PERIOD TIME this is what the hooded woman and kaname don't to happen THEY ARE SLAVING HUMAN TO BE PART OF THERE ARMY... THE PROBLEMS OF THE HUMAN. So, I think it time to have a new era of leadership and stop the pureblood vampires the rule the human and the world.
    this is what will happen if no one stops Sara. SHE WILL MAKE THE PROBLEMS OF THE HUMANS.
    so far its quite vague if Kaname has a plan for her..


    I admire Kaname somehow by thinking of that but however, not all pureblood vampires are evil/bad like yuuki's parents so it is unfair to kill all the purebloods.
    affraid where did you get the idea that juri and haruka are EVIL???
    affraid affraid affraid
    And we still don't know what is his original plan but it looks like you already know..

    Back on the topic, No matter what Yuuki do to stop him he cannot' allow yuuki to interfere his plan bec. he want Yuuki is 100% safe from the pureblood who want to attack her or steal herlife and he want to accomplish what he left in the past.
    Its not up to Kaname to decide for her. Its up to Yuki to stop him.

    it's not just possibilities but it is also facts.

    My analysis is base on facts from the book of Vampire Knights.
    my analysis think you are reading something else...

    rofl and wow you can tell the future now and you can say what you wrote are facts? amazing.

    well, the reality is that Kaname's plans were not entirely revealed and we are guessing. What you wrote are just possibilities, unless they happen they're not facts. If you are open to discussion as you say then you'll keep your theory open for dissection too. Goodluck. Razz




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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by rabbit on Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:59 am

    sweetsolace wrote:There's already a topic like this here
    http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t429-kaname-s-kuran-plan-of-action-is-heading-where




    Well, As Kaname said to Yuuki that he will fulfill his original plan. Kaname's original plan sacrifice himself, but bec. he love Yuuki he will kill first all the pureblood base on VK Chapter 74 pages 31, 32 and sacrifice his life for yuuki to be human again like what Juri-sama did (her mom)

    Kaname's original plan is unknown. His main purpose is to protect Yuki. His first option to do that is to sacrifice his life to turn her back to human when the human spell is exhausted.
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/11

    The spell, as we witnessed, was broken when Rido invaded the academy. And there was NO SACRIFICE. Instead, Kaname turned her back to pureblood himself. See chapter 35.

    Kaien voices his relief that he didn't do it and he had a CHANGE OF PLANS:
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/12

    Kaname says, "My main purpose remains the same, only the path has changed."
    in other words, he's saying his main purpose to protect Yuki still the same, only this time the way to achieving it is different.
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/26

    *the translation as uploaded in different sites is flawed in several areas , but my quotation should be more accurate. The links only serve as visual reference

    If yuuki will stop Kaname to kill the purebloods (like yume fanclub wish). I think it's to late for that bec. Kaname already started the fight against the purebloods and other noble vampire.
    why is it too late to stop him?
    And who said its a fight when Kaname's the one on the offensive and the rest are cowering from him?

    If yuuki will be a human again and the purebloods are gone (the roots of all evil) I think it going to be much better bec. purebloods who has the only power and capability to create an army in just an instant which means they can be more powerful.
    Again, Yuki being human theory is a pretty desperate leap to make Zero and Yuki end together and it doesn't make much sense.
    1. the vampires already know her existence. Turning her back will not serve the purpose to protect her identity as once pureblood.
    2. There's a possibility Yuki will break the human spell again like she did before.
    3. her life is more vulnerable as a human than as a pureblood.

    FROM THE PERIOD TIME this is what the hooded woman and kaname don't to happen THEY ARE SLAVING HUMAN TO BE PART OF THERE ARMY... THE PROBLEMS OF THE HUMAN. So, I think it time to have a new era of leadership and stop the pureblood vampires the rule the human and the world.
    this is what will happen if no one stops Sara. SHE WILL MAKE THE PROBLEMS OF THE HUMANS.
    so far its quite vague if Kaname has a plan for her..


    I admire Kaname somehow by thinking of that but however, not all pureblood vampires are evil/bad like yuuki's parents so it is unfair to kill all the purebloods.
    affraid where did you get the idea that juri and haruka are EVIL???
    affraid affraid affraid
    And we still don't know what is his original plan but it looks like you already know..

    Back on the topic, No matter what Yuuki do to stop him he cannot' allow yuuki to interfere his plan bec. he want Yuuki is 100% safe from the pureblood who want to attack her or steal herlife and he want to accomplish what he left in the past.
    Its not up to Kaname to decide for her. Its up to Yuki to stop him.

    it's not just possibilities but it is also facts.

    My analysis is base on facts from the book of Vampire Knights.
    my analysis think you are reading something else...

    rofl and wow you can tell the future now and you can say what you wrote are facts? amazing.

    well, the reality is that Kaname's plans were not entirely revealed and we are guessing. What you wrote are just possibilities, unless they happen they're not facts. If you are open to discussion as you say then you'll keep your theory open for dissection too. Goodluck. Razz




    i said NOT all pureblood vampire are evil/bad like yuuki's parent. do you understand that i mean yuuki's parent are good vampires that why it's unfair to kill all the purebloods if kaname is intended to do it.

    but i really appreciate your comment. thanks!!! okay i know you disagree atleast there is someone like you who commented.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:36 pm


    VK Chapter 64: page1: Kaname: This is about the distant past. I was doing a certain kind of experiment... page 2: K aname: on Our Abnormal Ability to resurrect ourselves, and how to stop it.
    Narrator: "Like the bottom of the sea--- another experiment by the name of Kaname."

    Kaname: the core of the experiment was a part of my own body.
    Hooded Woman: There is no need for that kind of experiment, what does it do for us?
    Kaname: For MANKIND?
    page3 Kaname: AFTER NUMEROUS EXPERIMENTS, I HAD FINALLY FOUND ONE POSSIBILITY PERHAPS THE ONLY THING CAN KILL US IS OURSELVES[/i] page 4 " a specific part of the flesh and blood of our body can alter the metallic soup"

    But there is also a part there in their dialogues that you did not include and I do not remember if this dialogue was exactly the same at the scans and the uploaded translation but there is at the volumes and as I saw it, I came upon the idea that this can be the base for Kaname's OP...

    > from volume thirteen, Viz release:

    HW to Kaname (is the scene where Yuuki sees herself as Kaname there):

    "The only way to stop more servants from being created is to destroy the source, Then we'll do something about the servants who have lost their masters. I don't relish destroying our kind after I searched them out...I am sorry asking you to do such an unpleasant job, forgive me Kaname.

    A little earlier she had said; " I'm worried these are those who are creating "servants" indiscriminately. There's no need for so many of them....and the servants need blood to sustain themselves. I have a bad feeling about this. THEY SAY IT"S WHAT BOTH SIDES WANT...BUT.."

    Two important facts here;
    1. HW Plan included to exterminate or eliminate purebloods that changed people despite that seemed to appear what both sides wanted...
    2. BUT she had no intention to exterminate ALL purebloods, as she said she had gone into great trouble finding them.

    So I think that's the base of Kaname's plan without that meaning that is not also complicated in order to adapt to the new vampire society and can also bring new changes>
    1. The hunters that now have lost real purpose and are not fighting alongside to exterminate the bad ones but have degraded their role, losing their initial scope of created> and if you think it deeper its a disgrace to this woman's sacrifice.
    2. the vampire society that turned "purebloods" into sacred and untouchable creatures> a philosophy that did not steem out from the Kuran's perspective and that also tells there perhaps there were political or more mysterious reasons why it had to be applied.
    3. The "queen bee" that needs to be proven wrong as in idea in order for the vampires to learn to protect themselves through their own choices.
    __________________________

    Look also at the cases of the purebloods that they were indeed exterminated >

    Hanadagi> there are panels there that connect him with the past, when Yuuki drinks from Kaname and asks "Why ME?" or when Kaname talks about despair and losing it all> at the scene with the mirror.

    Hio familly had surrendered Shizuka to the council as a baby> the council manipulated the blood and the power of the purebloods to achieve it purposes> this way Shizuka ended up to be engaged with Rido that also the council was preserving despite his crimes and she was given to eat HUMANS, ending in love with one of them> all this with the agreement or the complete indifference of her familly

    So there seems to be rich background there that we do not know, but in first a glance, it fails to persuade me that its innoncent.






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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by nina on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:47 pm

    The topic “What is the real plan of Kaname Kuran???? The Key of your Question” has been merged.

    Thank you.





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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:31 pm

    @RABBIT

    next time word your meaning properly to avoid misunderstandings. And its not that I don't agree, your idea in general sounds presumptuous, as shown by the points Ive raise and debated. If you're here just to listen to people agree or disagree with you then your theory doesn't look too mature
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by aya-chan on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:01 pm

    rabbit wrote:
    I admire Kaname somehow by thinking of that but however, not all pureblood vampires are evil/bad like yuuki's parents so it is unfair to kill all the purebloods.

    sweetsolace wrote:
    affraid where did you get the idea that juri and haruka are EVIL???
    affraid affraid affraid


    Rabbit, Solace has right. in your post you said that not all purebloods are evil/bad like yuuki's parents.
    Like is a comparisson term and you used it wrong. It just a simple grammatical error, but according to your error you implied that yuuki's parents were evil.

    If you would have said: not all purebloods are bad, some of them are good like yuuki's parents we wouldn't have a misunderstanding here.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:20 am

    quoting from thread http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t883p60-the-morality-and-ethics-of-the-hunters-chapter-75#21437


    @Ocean, Few things that I wanted to address to your post before…well here they are…


    The other thing is that Kaname supports this idea just to keep Yuuki save. I don't think that he really cares about the humans at all. Just look at what he thinks about Zero. Ok, he is a hunter and he is jealous of him being with Yuuki, but the point is, Zero is a Level D and Kuran certainly sees him like an inferior and treats him like it. He uses him and others as chess pieces etc.

    M..you are referring to Kaname that wanted to sacrifice his live so that he could save humans and give them the strength to fight? A vampire that if the ancestor lady had not sacrificed first, now HE would actually be the ancestor of the hunters? That’s bitter and ironic.
    Kaname still asks from others to evaporate areas where humans are close as he did with Ruka outside of Isaya’s home.
    And if Yuuki is important to him now this is nothing to be criticized for, who would sacrifice his own happiness or family or spouse for the sake of his neighbours? But does the one point contradicts the other? Eventually there is no contradiction in caring for one beloved over the unknown others and you do not need to support the general good to keep your own people safe, so its not comparative indicating a behavior.

    As for Zero and other treating him like chess pieces? Zero would be dead if there was no Kaname in the picture and Kaname made Zero the most powerful vampire hunter. That was a fair trade there…find me an enemy that treats you like an inferior and at the same time elevates you at the higher levels of the pyramids for the ex- reason…and gives you back the life that was taken from you, instead of “finishing” you after the deal is done. Now with this racist views lets continue at the following subjects…


    So with his obvious racist views, how should the coexistence with human work? NOT AT ALL!

    He knows no barriers, not even with his Pureblood "equals". He is the Kuran ancestor, the king, and he really behaves this way. He is relatively unstable to be a leader at all, because his subjects are easily disposable if it is for the sake of Yuuki. He doesn't even has an inner conflict because of it. That makes him extremely dangerous.

    Kaname is dangerous but to the ones that were dangerous and even more dangerous than him to their intentions- please tell me an innoncent soul that he killed here> and also the reasons…who? Aidou’s dad? This is something that even looked like an agreement. And who would agree on his own death and what for? this indicates rather serious reasons either a kind of trick played there.

    Its subject to finding out the reasons, but from the rest who were killed, who was the innoncent soul for which Kaname should have guilt ? Somehow you are hurrying to judge the killings that he has done now but you are missing the point that until the ending of the first arc, all reasons were justified and this is the main point that contradicts with Kaname's behavior right now, so do not hurry that much to judge him…


    The Hunters do make use of Kuran killing the other pure bloods. They would be stupid if they didn't. They are very strong and dangerous to them and the normal humans.

    I mean, think about it, those pure bloods were sleeping for ages. The society changed but if their views changed? I don't think so. And why should the Hunters give a flying F*** about those "creatures", they don't even know, except certain characteristic traits?

    I do not understand here, you are justifying the hunters but not Kaname? And why, according to YOUR logic, as it stated above, should Kaname care? Or even have guilts? What makes purebloods dangerous to all, makes them to all…no exceptions, so the hunter’s view on the subject is okay, but Kaname’s is not? Why? If we adopt your point of view then Kaname as representative of the vampires, as older and ancestor has the major responsibility to clear these threats since their view points have not changed and this could make them dangerous, I do not support it with my logic but I explore it according to yours.


    Doesn't Coexistence has something to do with understanding the other and in return to be understood? It doesn't really help to kill off People who are against this, because they don't have the same opinion. The choice is, follow or die. There is no real effort to change those racist views it's just commanded by Kuran. ( who doesn't really care either)
    The school didn't help either.

    Yes and nothing will help if the vampire society does not change her views on how it sees purebloods and the first lesson that they get is through Kaname that actually erases himself from being the Queen bee and hands this role to the more pink-glassed Yuuki…
    I am not sure if you are following my logic here but seems to me that certain targets are used for certain messages to pass and Kaname uses his own self here as the example everybody should avoid. I assume that he could keep Yuuki to himself and secretly kill the ones that went against him in slow phases…and also being an hypocrite but a supporter of co-existence nevertheless…






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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:43 pm

    M...it seems that things have become clearer now, wouldn't you just think so?

    some things are just appearing more obvious concerning Kaname's plan and his intention to kill all purebloods is confirmed again and again so it seems that there is no way around it or simple denying common logic...

    even though this "All" is relative again, Yuuki is a pureblood also would he kill her?

    anyway this brings us back to Takuma's line in chapter 90

    "Not only does Kaname plan to kill all the purebloods, he intends to become the original metal, which is the source of the weapons that can pose a threat to all vampires as well. This finally angered the remaning purebloods. "

    And I remember Isaya posing a question to Kaname at the ball:

    You, the ancestor who has been left alone in the world...most of the weapons that can kill purebloods have disappeared. If you want to eliminate all the purebloods all by yourself, their number is going to pose a problem for you.

    And it just came to my mind this theory about Kaname volunteering to substitute the HW as the metal in order to provoke the rest of the evil purebloods.

    Now that the weapons are few and inevitably Kaname has a great value for the future of the hunters, hunters are obliged to protect him so they have to go against purebloods, in contrast to the past where they did not care.

    Somehow we always had the hutch that Kaname shall use or bring in a way the hunters against the purebloods, so this is the last part of his plan, I believe, and this "threat" against him will justify and the end of purebloods, if we assume that the purebloods seeking power will respond now in an alliance (but as we saw an alliance is indeed a fact).

    Of course this shall not cancel Kaname's sacrifice, since the hunters need the weapons in order to be able to function and to kill vampires, the above theory it's just the way i think that Kaname led things so far; by using his sacrifice as a lure in order for the purebloods that pose a threat to come forward and present themselves, now the hunters finally have to go against them.

    And also it provides an answer as to why Kaname now returns and stays there, saying that he has no intention to leave, obviously the only way to eliminate purebloods is to gather their attention and let it be known that he is at the mansion, so that they can gather and hunters to be able to kill them.









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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by nina on Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:10 pm

    Juliet wrote:
    Somehow we always had the hutch that Kaname shall use or bring in a way the hunters against the purebloods, so this is the last part of his plan, I believe, and this "threat" against him will justify and the end of purebloods, if we assume that the purebloods seeking power will respond now in an alliance (but as we saw an alliance is indeed a fact).

    […]

    And also it provides an answer as to why Kaname now returns and stays there, saying that he has no intention to leave, obviously the only way to eliminate purebloods is to gather their attention and let it be known that he is at the mansion, so that they can gather and hunters to be able to kill them.


    Okay and IF so (and I underline the IF) then Hino has found a “brilliant” plan to:

    a) demonstrate and prove for a millionth time that ALL the PBs are evil
    b) give them a choice, even in the last minute, to save their own lives and go on living peacefully in the new era BUT cuz this isn’t in their nature (i.e. it is impossible) they will go straight to their annihilation OUT OF CHOICE
    c) make the altruistic Kaname a self-sacrificial F**** hero bringing FINALLY after 10000 years the true coexistence between humans and vampires!

    BRAVO! *applauses* Razz Razz Razz

    Of course I’m super sarcastic here because Miss Hino you cannot promote or establish ideals such as peace and coexistence via the COMPLETE annihilation of a RACE!
    Blood; yes, has been shed many times in history for serving ideals such as freedom, democracy, human rights etc. But high ideals choked in the blood of an entire RACE?! NO!

    I have said it a long time ago that this, for me at least, it is UNACCEPTABLE no matter what!
    I do not care if ALL the remaining PBs are evils and deserve or must die in order to bloom the coexistence cuz there was no other solution! It is her CHOICE to present them ALL as evil!

    I disagree fundamentally and ideologically with such messages thus I find her script fundamentally wrong no matter what justifications (persuasive or not) she may provides in the process!
    What is the meaning to analyze individual aspects of the script or what’s the meaning of this and that; when the foundation of the entire script moves on wrong tracks from the beginning of the 2nd arc at least?

    For me a true coexistence could only include ALL the races in the end, or else it’s pure BLs!
    And in order to do that she SHOULD have shown or show (I doubt if she has the space to do it now though) that there are remaining and good PBs as well, after the end of this final battle between evil and good, capable to adjust in a new era like many of the nobles did for example!
    One can say that PBs are beasts and not humans thus she has more liberties to treat them differently … yes but the same applies for the nobles! They are beasts as well; so why the different approach towards them?

    Why the PBs must be the only and main root of the evilness? Why such simplistic approaches hence simplistic and nihilistic resolutions as aftermath?

    Because bottom line she is the author and could promote perfectly different solutions bearing different messages! Hence and I won’t accept that this ain’t Hino’s scope! It is and she has identified her views with such solutions since (or IF) this is her final solution!

    If it isn’t then she owes to give the alternative which above all will also PREVAIL!

    Ergo under these circumstances, under this script I’m indifferent if she’ll give me a happy or tragic Yume or whatever end! I’m indifferent if she’ll cover her loopholes in the scenario or how many of them…
    I’m indifferent if Kaname is the hero!

    It leaves me totally indifferent!





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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:36 am

    I disagree fundamentally and ideologically with such messages thus I find her script fundamentally wrong no matter what justifications (persuasive or not) she may provides in the process!
    What is the meaning to analyze individual aspects of the script or what’s the meaning of this and that; when the foundation of the entire script moves on wrong tracks from the beginning of the 2nd arc at least?

    the second arc is very obscure in its way and messages ect.

    I agree with you that the second arc (SEEMS) ( I am going to be reserved because we have not reached the end yet) to be entirely focused on the extermination of the purebloods, offering no other solution for the co-existence to be achieved.

    And this is the main problem that i see; there is no plot to it after all (IF LEFT AS SUCH), no main script problem to justify the extermination of the purebloods, no other than the co-existence ideal itself.

    And as you i am also wondering; what kind of ideal can survive on the ashes of a race? THIS IS TOTALLY A WRONG CONCEPT.

    To say it in few words; it does not worth a plot, time and effort wasted, since the extermination of the mean purebloods could have been achieved over the centuries (as it was done before) in an individual basis.

    Instead of the above solution that is the natural process of eliminating the source of problems (and in reality is the end of the first arc), Hino extends the script to fit in the idea that all purebloods are to be eliminated here and now; creating a co-existence that is rushed, purposely focused on the main idea that no purebloods should exist in order for the co-existence to arrive.

    This idea is served at the second arc; so yes IF she sacrifices all purebloods here (she creates the script here) to serve the co-existence purpose the script has a major problem, the message is totally wrong as the concept of the idea as a whole.

    And on that basis what co-existence? What Zeki and Yume? You can not create characters that shall bring peace on the fundamentals of pure death and targeted extermination.

    I could add more but I shall stop here; there is no point going in further detail when no one should accept such a script to hang around, suggesting that this was all about;

    exterminating a race to get co-existence because they were bad and they were few left. I see her effort to save it but her effort to present all race as a rotten one just makes things worst;

    THIS IS CRAP WORK, LAZY IDEAS AND DANGEROUS. No we do not have to accept it, neither support it, as she uses fandoms tricks to convey twisted meanings under the pink cloud of yume or zeki.

    IF it turns out like that (and i am afraid that it will), she can take co-existence here apply it to her culture. Because such co-existence should never exist.

    Great success for all her characters; decorative elements!

    BRAVO HINO GREAT SUCCESS! IF THIS IS CO-EXISTENCE, SHE CAN SELL VOLUMES TO THE ONE THAT BUY THESE NONSENSE!!








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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by lililovelilica on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:38 am

    Maybe Hino only wants to transmit to us readers that Kaname is a lonely guy who needs a chick to get laid(joking)
    Yuuki is really thinking of helping Kaname ,she had decided to take his route as his companion in life,but i've got confused since she made Zero remember everything...

    Perhaps Zero is the one to help Kaname Realize Yuuki Needs him ALIVE!

    I swear to god that if she kills Kaname i'm gonna hate hino for my entire LIFE!
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:29 am

    Well at least she postponed the battle between the hunters and the purebloods for a chapter...

    we are talking progression here; is this Hanadagi guardian stupid or what? she attacks the Kuran mansion and she expects Kaname aka the target not to interfere?

    Hino is buying some panels and also some time....bringing Zero closer to Kaname (ha?) you heard me...LOL

    about Kaname's plan the way that Hino portrays the whole thing is not sure if it's all under one plan (HW's awakening and predicting the attack of the purebloods while sealing also his fate >) or if the awakening was accidental and it put an end to Kaname's plan to continue killing purebloods, but as he is also quite lucky with events ( somehow his ultimate wish is always fulfilled, all but one - death avoids him- everything else does happen), the purebloods' organize an attack that potentially can fulfill his plan.

    What of the two can be? the first sounds more solid (actually sounds more of a plan from his part), the second is bad estimation (couldn't he keep his butt away from the HA, LOL), and just turns him back to where he started with the exemption of few purebloods being killed (Sara, Hana, Hio bla, bla...)

    Plus in the first case he is still the predator (even though the price is very high -his eternity as the metal), in the second case he is the victim of his own intentions...

    What do you think?

    (in case you have some time to kill LOL eitherwise Hino may never answer the above...plus the intention to finish all the purebloods either way (whatever happened here) may not be granted at the end (some purebloods may not appear or the battle shall stop for some reason), even though i think that now that his intention to change Yuuki fails that opens more the way for a good resolution of some sort. Eitherwise Yuuki's role shall be limited only in her attempt to save Kaname whereas there is a great opportunity here for Yuuki to shine, and prove the difference that she can make by being a pureblood in this society. Hope that Hino uses it.






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